> We’re not even talking huge sacrifice—the difference between making EVs and making old-school SUVs, or investing in a fossil-free index fund, or ending loans to oil companies, is not existential to any of the parties involved.
Isn't this exactly the sort of thing that won't actually make anything better? It seems to me that half-hearted attempts won't do much to ameliorate the anxiety of young people. In my opinion, the interests behind capitalism have been trying this strategy for a long time--recycling, EVs, solar...and we just keep using more energy and CO2 rises predictably as always. Seems to me like young people are realizing that this 'have your cake and eat it too' (we want to stop climate change AND keep industrial society) is complete nonsense.
Maybe it's actually a good thing that anxiety is building. Maybe it means that instead of getting a new generation of monkeys who think they can change the world with a few EVs and subsidy changes, we'll get a revolution instead that truly puts the capitalistic-consumerist machine in the ground for good....
One remedy to our low use of green energy I rarely hear, is citizen owned utilities. I live in Sacramento County, California we own our utility, Sacramento Municipal Utility District (SMUD). We pay significantly lower rates, than surrounding counties with greedy shareholder owned utilities. The problem originated many years ago when greedy county legislators took kick-backs to give 99 year contracts to privately owned utilities rather than using local tax dollars to build their own utilities. We, in the SMUD, district can pay a voluntary fee ($5 to $10 per month) to use more green energy than gas. SMUD is not expected to make a profit, just provide low cost efficient energy. We did have a nuclear power plant at one time, but it was shut down after Three Mile Island. As a scientist, I strongly objected to this waste of a decent energy source. Changes could have been made to improve the safety of the plant.
It surprises me that more climatologists and ecology activists don't push to get more publicly owned energy providers and simply make an end run around big fossil fuel. Most of those 99 year contracts have long ago timed out. The Public Utility Commissions have too many members with ties to the greedy private utilities. Get rid of them, and we could double the gains of China in five years and reduce the cost of energy in the US.
A critical antidote to climate anxiety is knowing that we actually can restore a historically safe climate.
While focus for decades has been on reducing fossil fuel emissions...that's not enough. We all need to understand that reducing emissions is not the same as fixing the climate.
Even if we hit net-zero tomorrow, climate chaos would continue--because of all the legacy CO2 already up in the atmosphere. A trillion tons of it, accumulating from the start of the industrial revolution.
Finally, there’s a growing movement to restore a safe climate for current and future generations. which means a pre-industrial climate, by pulling out those trillion tons (which is 1,000 billion tons or 1,000 gigatons—however you word it, it’s a lot!)
Climate restoration means getting to net-zero AND ending the climate crisis by 2050 while Earth systems are still functioning. by restoring a historically safe climate, and To end the climate crisis and restore a safe climate, we have to pull that out of the atmosphere-- permanently, quickly, and without bankrupting the world. The best means are those that nature uses regularly-- photosynthesis in the ocean pulls out about that much regularly, leading up to ice ages. We can build with CO2 by making synthetic limestone. Now--people are doing it!
These and other natural-process climate restoration solutions are demonstrated and could soon be ready to go—they’re just not well known. I urge your listeners to learn more at FoundationForClimateRestoration.org
I have to add here that it isn’t only the children who are suffering from climate stress, anxiety, fear. I’m 71, and like Bill, I’ve spent the majority of my adult years as an activist, in many areas. But my main thing has been creating an economy for a living Earth. I can say I’m not one of the boomers who did nothing, but despite what I did manage to do, here we are. Change is not going to come from the government or any of our national or (certainly) global institutions. Change is only going to come from the literal grass roots. We the people have lost our agency at any except the local and perhaps regional levels. It was always difficult as a citizen to have an impact but once Citizen’s United was passed, the nails were in the coffin of our having any say over our government. Combine that with gerrymandering and the fact that our US Constitution has no teeth, and what little teeth it may have had are being consistently ignored and denigrated by SCOTUS . . . As I see it we have these options (aside from doing nothing which is not an option): we can get out in the streets en masse, including civil disobedience despite the obvious dangers given the volatility of our country today; we can work where we live to create community; we can begin to recreate our local/regional economies by plugging the leaks (start finding ways of producing more of our basic needs locally, and also plugging the energy leaks with massive conservation). There’s more of course. Personally, I have 6 grandchildren. The youngest is 4, the oldest 23. With the exception of the youngest, they are ALL aware that they are inheriting a mess, and their parents, my youngest son especially, who is the dad of my youngest grandson, struggles daily with the awareness of doom. My kids have been aware pretty much since they were in grammar school since I was an activist during those years. They counted signatures on petitions, woke up to EF! activists sleeping on the living room floor, were packed off to the babysitter while I traveled and spoke at events around the country, they grew up aware but also they grew up feeling that I was doing something to make a difference. Yet . . . here we are. I’ve had many conversations with them about the “failure” of what I did, what my fellow activists did. I did not anticipate this world, the cruelty, the greed (I knew there was greed but what now it’s to the MAX), the selfishness. And my heart breaks every day knowing Earth and all species are suffering and endangered. This is a hard burden for humans to bear, regardless of age. At least I tried, though, as I’ve said already . . . here we are.
"If you’re a young person you could look at them all and think: they don’t want even relatively small changes, and in the process they’re guaranteeing that absolutely everything will change for us."
As a 20-year-old climate activist who cant have a conversation that isn't about environmentalism.... I can't emphasize enough the emotional toll the climate crisis elicits. There is a new way of growing up that is originating, among my peers, where even though I am entering the Adult World I deeply resent and mistrust it. I'm furious at the decades of inaction, I'm scared of the status quo. I am so, so young and my worldview is already altered.
If you're an adult over 40 reading this, I need you to pause and understand -- my brain is still developing under an unbelievable reality, a currently unfolding crisis. Greta Thunburg made headlines at age 15, only 15! The young people + children of today are facing something unprecedented that our parents have not and cannot prepare us for, that the boomer-run government ignores.... so we are suffering. We are already suffering.
Even before my coastal hometown is flooded, I am waiting in fear for the floods to come.
So what are we DOING about it? Governments react to pressure from lobbyists. The climate and environmental movements need more lobbyists acting on our behalf.
I'm not a young person but I grew up in the 80s and 90s with a keen awareness that humans were polluting the earth and then knowing about climate change. It feels unfair that my kids encounter so many messages about taking care of the earth and "doing your part" to make it better when the leaders and corporations who have been in power for most of my lifetime have the power to make great change and they haven't done enough.
When you look at the twin threats of climate catastrophe and oil depletion together, it becomes clear that the only way out of the climate conundrum is with a vastly lower energy throughput society. I can cite other evidence of this assertion such as energy density and EROEI, but that may be too technical to explore here.
To all those who are addicted to the fossil fueled life, this sounds as devastating as cold turkey sounds to an opioid addict. But the crazy thing is that energy descent can be pleasant, even fun, and a low energy future can be more relaxed, more communal, less stressful, and much less driven. People like Scott Johnson of the Low Technology Institute, Kris deDecker of Low Tech Magazine, Andrew Millison of the University of Oregon, and former biologist turned farmer Jason Bradford have been researching high-happiness low-tech lifestyles, with great results. The Transition Town Network has towns all over the world running their own local experiments in energy descent. At a recent meeting of my nearby Transition Town, the social/psychological energy in the room was palpable, a sustained buzz.
So sorry, we don't need to get out there and pedal EVs to everyone. We need to get out there and pedal pedaling, as in a bike or adult tricycle to everyone. And, sorry again, we may need greater density in rural towns, but we need less in suburbia, and much less in cities, in order to have our food grow within walking distance. Or at least within horse-drawn or pedaling distance.
But thank you for continuing to draw attention to the ever worsening catastrophe!
Reading a book called Slow Down by Kohei Saito (Japanese) that is quite informative, revealing the incredible challenge of the climate crisis, and that the only way to address it effectively is through global action, somehow slowing economic growth (the degrowth manifesto). No matter how much the rich global north acts, if it doesn't do so by involving the poor global south, the effort is simply not going to be effective enough due to the capitalistic consumerist machine that prevails globally.
I recently stayed at a chain hotel on Route 9 in Hadley MA. The hotel had about 100 rooms, and zero working EV chargers. There had been one, but it was destroyed and not replaced.
I think all large hotels/motels on major routes should have at least 1 charger for every x rooms (maybe x = 5).
Activists should work with travel/rating sites such as Travelocity and Yelp to have hotels and motels routinely list how many charging stations are available and what type (faster or slower) are available. People with EVs could be encouraged to rate the charging stations (many broken stations? excessively long charging times? inconvenient to rooms? too expensive?)
Technically, I think a few actual chargers could support a large number of charging stations. People would park at night, plug in their vehicle at a station, and insert their credit card. When a car was fully charged (or charged as much at the driver needed) their charging would stop, and another car would be charged. Anyone needing a quick charge could get to the head of the line by paying extra.
Also, hotels, large restaurants, and movie theatres might want to entice people with EVs to stop by for a meal and/or entertainment and get a fast charge.
Comments for improvement of this idea are welcome. Is anyone working on such a project?
(My first post here. If I posted to the wrong place, please let me know.)
This is a good thread but largely ignores the elephant in the room. America. Of the earth's 3.4 watt per square meter energy imbalance we've delivered a bit <0.9 wsm. And we basically took over global business doing so.
60 percent of global market cap is, uh, no secret to the 95 percent of the world's people trying to follow in our footsteps. We have a huge lead in technology (if not in manufacturing its components), we lead in oil production, and are pushing to supply the world with LNG. We were the first to successfully implement cap and trade. And we have the highest income per capita among large nations.
But as of the COP 28 global stocktake we are 76 percent above a 1.5°C 2030 emissions pathway (in need of 3.3gt/yr of abatement between 2021 and 2030). We have no national carbon price and a serious presidential candidate planning to turn our 1.5°C emissions gap into a giant chasm.
Does anyone know anyone who knows anyone believing 200 nations are going to net zero any decade soon under those circumstances?
Bill Nordhaus called it right with climate clubs. The US should be forming one as soon as we dump free greenhouse gas pollution. The EU ETS with CBMs is effectively one. But that kind of world, sans US leadership, is a castle in the sand. It's just math.
America needs conservatives who conserve. Nixon, Reagan/Schultz, HW Bush, McCain, and Paulson come to mind. Science has made America rich, healthy, comfy, and competitive. And science is telling us more climate forcing = disasters, migration, conflict, and disease. And that's just the best case. The enforced ignorance of American anti–science conservatism must be mitigated for the world to "contract & converge" to 1.5°C.
Thank you, Bill, for focusing on our youth's anxiety about their future. I know one young person who cannot fall asleep at night because of this. That is why I encourage youth activism so they don't feel so alone and powerless. There is now an app called TurnUp.US started by brilliant students at Harvard during the pandemic which offers information from many sources all in one place. I think it is a free download and well worth joining.
I love the story about the sea otters and the kelp forests, please keep the positive news coming!
We may be trying to sell too much. Maybe what we need to focus on is how this can make YOUR kids lives a little better. A little cooler. A little more secure. A little safer. Keep it personal and close to home.
Never, ever, not a single time, anywhere, have I EVER! read a "review" of EV, HeatPump, or even a fridge, lawn mower or water heater that had a single mention in 1st paragraph of more/less efficiency or pollution/climate consequence. Cup-holders, color, comfort, yes. But CO2? no.
The big-bad-corporations are slaves to the petty preferences of their customers. "..we have met the enemy, and he is us." --Pogo.
The power of profits almost always trumps professional and personal sacrifice. ROI is always more important than DWR (Doing What's Right). Until GAAP inserts a line or a box into the P&Ls or corporate balance sheets that places a greater value on investing in a clean future than profiting from a toxic present, progress towards true sustainability will be slow. We need corporate leadership, courage and commitment for real change.
> We’re not even talking huge sacrifice—the difference between making EVs and making old-school SUVs, or investing in a fossil-free index fund, or ending loans to oil companies, is not existential to any of the parties involved.
Isn't this exactly the sort of thing that won't actually make anything better? It seems to me that half-hearted attempts won't do much to ameliorate the anxiety of young people. In my opinion, the interests behind capitalism have been trying this strategy for a long time--recycling, EVs, solar...and we just keep using more energy and CO2 rises predictably as always. Seems to me like young people are realizing that this 'have your cake and eat it too' (we want to stop climate change AND keep industrial society) is complete nonsense.
Maybe it's actually a good thing that anxiety is building. Maybe it means that instead of getting a new generation of monkeys who think they can change the world with a few EVs and subsidy changes, we'll get a revolution instead that truly puts the capitalistic-consumerist machine in the ground for good....
One remedy to our low use of green energy I rarely hear, is citizen owned utilities. I live in Sacramento County, California we own our utility, Sacramento Municipal Utility District (SMUD). We pay significantly lower rates, than surrounding counties with greedy shareholder owned utilities. The problem originated many years ago when greedy county legislators took kick-backs to give 99 year contracts to privately owned utilities rather than using local tax dollars to build their own utilities. We, in the SMUD, district can pay a voluntary fee ($5 to $10 per month) to use more green energy than gas. SMUD is not expected to make a profit, just provide low cost efficient energy. We did have a nuclear power plant at one time, but it was shut down after Three Mile Island. As a scientist, I strongly objected to this waste of a decent energy source. Changes could have been made to improve the safety of the plant.
It surprises me that more climatologists and ecology activists don't push to get more publicly owned energy providers and simply make an end run around big fossil fuel. Most of those 99 year contracts have long ago timed out. The Public Utility Commissions have too many members with ties to the greedy private utilities. Get rid of them, and we could double the gains of China in five years and reduce the cost of energy in the US.
A critical antidote to climate anxiety is knowing that we actually can restore a historically safe climate.
While focus for decades has been on reducing fossil fuel emissions...that's not enough. We all need to understand that reducing emissions is not the same as fixing the climate.
Even if we hit net-zero tomorrow, climate chaos would continue--because of all the legacy CO2 already up in the atmosphere. A trillion tons of it, accumulating from the start of the industrial revolution.
Finally, there’s a growing movement to restore a safe climate for current and future generations. which means a pre-industrial climate, by pulling out those trillion tons (which is 1,000 billion tons or 1,000 gigatons—however you word it, it’s a lot!)
Climate restoration means getting to net-zero AND ending the climate crisis by 2050 while Earth systems are still functioning. by restoring a historically safe climate, and To end the climate crisis and restore a safe climate, we have to pull that out of the atmosphere-- permanently, quickly, and without bankrupting the world. The best means are those that nature uses regularly-- photosynthesis in the ocean pulls out about that much regularly, leading up to ice ages. We can build with CO2 by making synthetic limestone. Now--people are doing it!
These and other natural-process climate restoration solutions are demonstrated and could soon be ready to go—they’re just not well known. I urge your listeners to learn more at FoundationForClimateRestoration.org
I have to add here that it isn’t only the children who are suffering from climate stress, anxiety, fear. I’m 71, and like Bill, I’ve spent the majority of my adult years as an activist, in many areas. But my main thing has been creating an economy for a living Earth. I can say I’m not one of the boomers who did nothing, but despite what I did manage to do, here we are. Change is not going to come from the government or any of our national or (certainly) global institutions. Change is only going to come from the literal grass roots. We the people have lost our agency at any except the local and perhaps regional levels. It was always difficult as a citizen to have an impact but once Citizen’s United was passed, the nails were in the coffin of our having any say over our government. Combine that with gerrymandering and the fact that our US Constitution has no teeth, and what little teeth it may have had are being consistently ignored and denigrated by SCOTUS . . . As I see it we have these options (aside from doing nothing which is not an option): we can get out in the streets en masse, including civil disobedience despite the obvious dangers given the volatility of our country today; we can work where we live to create community; we can begin to recreate our local/regional economies by plugging the leaks (start finding ways of producing more of our basic needs locally, and also plugging the energy leaks with massive conservation). There’s more of course. Personally, I have 6 grandchildren. The youngest is 4, the oldest 23. With the exception of the youngest, they are ALL aware that they are inheriting a mess, and their parents, my youngest son especially, who is the dad of my youngest grandson, struggles daily with the awareness of doom. My kids have been aware pretty much since they were in grammar school since I was an activist during those years. They counted signatures on petitions, woke up to EF! activists sleeping on the living room floor, were packed off to the babysitter while I traveled and spoke at events around the country, they grew up aware but also they grew up feeling that I was doing something to make a difference. Yet . . . here we are. I’ve had many conversations with them about the “failure” of what I did, what my fellow activists did. I did not anticipate this world, the cruelty, the greed (I knew there was greed but what now it’s to the MAX), the selfishness. And my heart breaks every day knowing Earth and all species are suffering and endangered. This is a hard burden for humans to bear, regardless of age. At least I tried, though, as I’ve said already . . . here we are.
"If you’re a young person you could look at them all and think: they don’t want even relatively small changes, and in the process they’re guaranteeing that absolutely everything will change for us."
As a 20-year-old climate activist who cant have a conversation that isn't about environmentalism.... I can't emphasize enough the emotional toll the climate crisis elicits. There is a new way of growing up that is originating, among my peers, where even though I am entering the Adult World I deeply resent and mistrust it. I'm furious at the decades of inaction, I'm scared of the status quo. I am so, so young and my worldview is already altered.
If you're an adult over 40 reading this, I need you to pause and understand -- my brain is still developing under an unbelievable reality, a currently unfolding crisis. Greta Thunburg made headlines at age 15, only 15! The young people + children of today are facing something unprecedented that our parents have not and cannot prepare us for, that the boomer-run government ignores.... so we are suffering. We are already suffering.
Even before my coastal hometown is flooded, I am waiting in fear for the floods to come.
So what are we DOING about it? Governments react to pressure from lobbyists. The climate and environmental movements need more lobbyists acting on our behalf.
I'm not a young person but I grew up in the 80s and 90s with a keen awareness that humans were polluting the earth and then knowing about climate change. It feels unfair that my kids encounter so many messages about taking care of the earth and "doing your part" to make it better when the leaders and corporations who have been in power for most of my lifetime have the power to make great change and they haven't done enough.
When you look at the twin threats of climate catastrophe and oil depletion together, it becomes clear that the only way out of the climate conundrum is with a vastly lower energy throughput society. I can cite other evidence of this assertion such as energy density and EROEI, but that may be too technical to explore here.
To all those who are addicted to the fossil fueled life, this sounds as devastating as cold turkey sounds to an opioid addict. But the crazy thing is that energy descent can be pleasant, even fun, and a low energy future can be more relaxed, more communal, less stressful, and much less driven. People like Scott Johnson of the Low Technology Institute, Kris deDecker of Low Tech Magazine, Andrew Millison of the University of Oregon, and former biologist turned farmer Jason Bradford have been researching high-happiness low-tech lifestyles, with great results. The Transition Town Network has towns all over the world running their own local experiments in energy descent. At a recent meeting of my nearby Transition Town, the social/psychological energy in the room was palpable, a sustained buzz.
So sorry, we don't need to get out there and pedal EVs to everyone. We need to get out there and pedal pedaling, as in a bike or adult tricycle to everyone. And, sorry again, we may need greater density in rural towns, but we need less in suburbia, and much less in cities, in order to have our food grow within walking distance. Or at least within horse-drawn or pedaling distance.
But thank you for continuing to draw attention to the ever worsening catastrophe!
Reading a book called Slow Down by Kohei Saito (Japanese) that is quite informative, revealing the incredible challenge of the climate crisis, and that the only way to address it effectively is through global action, somehow slowing economic growth (the degrowth manifesto). No matter how much the rich global north acts, if it doesn't do so by involving the poor global south, the effort is simply not going to be effective enough due to the capitalistic consumerist machine that prevails globally.
Hoping you will write a response to the WPO article today that said divestment was not working.
I recently stayed at a chain hotel on Route 9 in Hadley MA. The hotel had about 100 rooms, and zero working EV chargers. There had been one, but it was destroyed and not replaced.
I think all large hotels/motels on major routes should have at least 1 charger for every x rooms (maybe x = 5).
Activists should work with travel/rating sites such as Travelocity and Yelp to have hotels and motels routinely list how many charging stations are available and what type (faster or slower) are available. People with EVs could be encouraged to rate the charging stations (many broken stations? excessively long charging times? inconvenient to rooms? too expensive?)
Technically, I think a few actual chargers could support a large number of charging stations. People would park at night, plug in their vehicle at a station, and insert their credit card. When a car was fully charged (or charged as much at the driver needed) their charging would stop, and another car would be charged. Anyone needing a quick charge could get to the head of the line by paying extra.
Also, hotels, large restaurants, and movie theatres might want to entice people with EVs to stop by for a meal and/or entertainment and get a fast charge.
Comments for improvement of this idea are welcome. Is anyone working on such a project?
(My first post here. If I posted to the wrong place, please let me know.)
This is a good thread but largely ignores the elephant in the room. America. Of the earth's 3.4 watt per square meter energy imbalance we've delivered a bit <0.9 wsm. And we basically took over global business doing so.
60 percent of global market cap is, uh, no secret to the 95 percent of the world's people trying to follow in our footsteps. We have a huge lead in technology (if not in manufacturing its components), we lead in oil production, and are pushing to supply the world with LNG. We were the first to successfully implement cap and trade. And we have the highest income per capita among large nations.
But as of the COP 28 global stocktake we are 76 percent above a 1.5°C 2030 emissions pathway (in need of 3.3gt/yr of abatement between 2021 and 2030). We have no national carbon price and a serious presidential candidate planning to turn our 1.5°C emissions gap into a giant chasm.
Does anyone know anyone who knows anyone believing 200 nations are going to net zero any decade soon under those circumstances?
Bill Nordhaus called it right with climate clubs. The US should be forming one as soon as we dump free greenhouse gas pollution. The EU ETS with CBMs is effectively one. But that kind of world, sans US leadership, is a castle in the sand. It's just math.
America needs conservatives who conserve. Nixon, Reagan/Schultz, HW Bush, McCain, and Paulson come to mind. Science has made America rich, healthy, comfy, and competitive. And science is telling us more climate forcing = disasters, migration, conflict, and disease. And that's just the best case. The enforced ignorance of American anti–science conservatism must be mitigated for the world to "contract & converge" to 1.5°C.
Thank you, Bill, for focusing on our youth's anxiety about their future. I know one young person who cannot fall asleep at night because of this. That is why I encourage youth activism so they don't feel so alone and powerless. There is now an app called TurnUp.US started by brilliant students at Harvard during the pandemic which offers information from many sources all in one place. I think it is a free download and well worth joining.
I love the story about the sea otters and the kelp forests, please keep the positive news coming!
We may be trying to sell too much. Maybe what we need to focus on is how this can make YOUR kids lives a little better. A little cooler. A little more secure. A little safer. Keep it personal and close to home.
Never, ever, not a single time, anywhere, have I EVER! read a "review" of EV, HeatPump, or even a fridge, lawn mower or water heater that had a single mention in 1st paragraph of more/less efficiency or pollution/climate consequence. Cup-holders, color, comfort, yes. But CO2? no.
The big-bad-corporations are slaves to the petty preferences of their customers. "..we have met the enemy, and he is us." --Pogo.
The power of profits almost always trumps professional and personal sacrifice. ROI is always more important than DWR (Doing What's Right). Until GAAP inserts a line or a box into the P&Ls or corporate balance sheets that places a greater value on investing in a clean future than profiting from a toxic present, progress towards true sustainability will be slow. We need corporate leadership, courage and commitment for real change.